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A spam relay daemon cannot bind to port 25 unless it is started as root.
That makes it less useful, since clients must be reconfigured to use a
nonstandard port.
While it is certainly possible to run a remote-control daemon as
non-root, it won't be able to hide itself and can be trivially detected
and killed. A remote-control program that is installed and run as root
as part of a trojan or other malicious program however can also replace
system files like netstat and ps, or even install kernel modules, to
avoid detection.
As I said before, a linux box connected to the internet with an
always-on connection like DSL or cable, is, for all intents and
purposes, a server. The fact that these arguments are 20 years old
lends them more credibility, not less.
>
> > I suppose, from a purely selfish point of view, it makes no difference.
> > Unless you're held accountable for actions an attacker takes using your
> > compromised computer.
>
> That assumes that you can come up with something malicious that needs
> root rather than a non-root account. What action does an attacker need
> root for that I could be held accountable (presumably to others) for?
See above. Running as non-root doesn't eliminate risk, it just reduces
it.
> > It's really not that big a deal to add your user account to the dvd,
> > video, audio, games, etc. groups.
>
> BINGO. That was my original entry into this thread. I can configure a
> thousand things (thereby giving my user account god-like access) or I
> can just "useradd jimpop -u 0". There really isn't much difference on a
> desktop single-user PC/laptop.
Adding your user account to the audio, video, dvd, and games groups is
hardly equivalent to giving it god-like access.
> > > > there's no rationale for running as root.
> > >
> > > Sure there is. You may not see it however.
> >
> > It's the same old argument that always comes up: security vs.
> > convenience. Like many things, it's more convenient to run as root, but
> > less secure.
>
> HOW IS IT LESS SECURE??? Less secure for who? The User? LOL! Running
> as a user is just as insecure for that user.
I thought I made it pretty clear that it's less secure for everyone
else, not necessarily for the user. Jerry made an excellent point with
his DUI analogy.
> > The first requires an extra step. If a trojan script has "mkfs
> > /dev/hda8" in it, and you execute it as root, you just lost your
> > filesystem. If you execute it as a normal user you're safe. That is,
> > admittedly, a contrived example, but the principle still holds.
>
> First off, it is too easy to have a malicious virus try both ways (mkfs
> vs sudo mkfs). In fact, I bet it can be done in a one line perl script
> to format all available partitions. HOWEVER, the other argument being
> given is that running as root allows a zombies to magically infect your
> machine. Isn't mkfs the best thing for a zombie infected machine? :-)
I was only trying to make a point, and I even specifically said it was a
contrived example. The point I was trying to make, apparently
unsuccessfully, was that requiring the user to become root first before
executing dangerous commands like "mkfs /dev/hda8" adds a small layer of
security. A simple script that tries to execute a privileged command
will fail if run by a normal user.
And I never said "running as root allows a zombies to magically infect
your machine." Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my original post, but
surely even you can admit that accidentally executing a trojan as root
is worse than executing it as a non-root user?
Jason
--
Jason Day jasonday at
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://jasonday.home.att.net";>http://jasonday.home.att.net</a> worldnet dot att dot net
"Of course I'm paranoid, everyone is trying to kill me."
-- Weyoun-6, Star Trek: Deep Space 9
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